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You remember the farm bill

October 17, 2013

Seemingly lost in the high-stakes drama surrounding the partial government shutdown and on-again-off-again debate over the nation’s debt ceiling is the farm bill. Or lack thereof....

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(100)

hartman75

Oct-24-13 2:39 PM

“Initially the credit wasn’t refundable in most cases (only for families who had three or more children and who also met certain income tests). So the issue of illegal workers claiming credits did not arise at first. But the 2001 Bush tax cuts made more parents eligible for refundable credits…”

“So by 2005…796,000 persons without valid Social Security numbers claimed refundable child credits totaling $924 million, and in 2008, these claims had risen to 1,526,276 persons claiming $2.1 billion in refunds.”

“Release of the IG report last year sparked a Republican effort to stop the payments…” “Nevertheless, a House bill by Texas Republican Sam Johnson (H.R. 1956) had collected 60 GOP cosponsors as of May 10. It would require that at least one parent file a valid Social Security number to collect a refundable child tax credit.”

Run this by H&R Block rangeral. BTW, I accept your apology.

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hartman75

Oct-24-13 2:38 PM

Per Factcheck****

“…the IRS routinely seeks to collect both federal income taxes and federal payroll taxes from illegal immigrants, who are required to pay regardless of their immigration status. Because such workers don’t qualify for a valid Social Security number, the IRS issues a nine-digit Individual Taxpayer Identification Number. An ITIN doesn’t authorize the user to work legally in the U.S., and doesn’t entitle him or her to Social Security benefits.”

“…since passage of the 1996 welfare reform law, they (illegal immigrants) have been ineligible for the refundable portion of the Earned Income Tax Credit. At that time, Congress required that a valid Social Security number be filed for those claiming the EITC, and that requirement saved an estimated $300 million a year. But Congress did not enact a similar requirement when it created the child tax credit, which went into effect in tax year 1998…” (cont.)

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rangeral

Oct-24-13 1:05 PM

hartman- I checked with a tax preparer for H&R Block and determined that a valid SS number is required for each person for which EIC is claimed. Apparently you have not looked at the EIC tax form or the instructions for same.

My friend also says that every week during tax season they see people trying to use the same SS as ones used previously by another person. Some try to claim as many as 12 children. They report this information to the IRS but to the best of her knowledge the IRS has never confirmed that they have investigated these claims of fraud.

Are you using this scam, hartman? Call me on your free smart phone and then take me grocery shopping with your food stamp card. We'll sell the latter at half face value and use the money to buy hootch.

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hartman75

Oct-24-13 12:02 PM

The fact is rangeral and Scout, a Republican led Congress in 1998 eliminated the requirement that individuals who qualified for the EITC provide a SS number. I have no idea why that was done. The IRS ONLY ENFORCES EXISTING TAX LAW - IT DOES NOT CREATE TAX LAW. Therefore, the IRS is bound by law to pay the EITC to those who qualify - THEY DO NOT DECIDE WHO QUALIFIES AND WHO DOES NOT. The only way to resolve this issue is for Congress to change the eligibility standards and how those standards are met. Until then it is a loophole NOT fraud and nothing has been "twisted" exempt your undies.

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Scout101

Oct-23-13 8:16 PM

Hartman you are a good little Obamacrat. Twisting someones statements and making argumentative statements because you have a twisted idea of what is right. In the military if you are given an order that is obviously wrong you have a duty to not comply. The same applies to the IRS, they are sending checks to those they know have no legal right to be in the country and therefore no right to receive the money. It is that attitude that is causing the downfall of this country. By the time I am on Medicare and Social Security I will have paid in to both for 49 - 51 years. I suppose in your opinion I will be subsidized by the government.

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rangeral

Oct-23-13 5:11 PM

These are not loopholes, it is fraud.

You must be in charge of the Smart Phone program where fraud is rampant.

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hartman75

Oct-23-13 4:08 PM

You are silly rangeral. Read this slowly. Congress sets the laws the IRS is supposed to follow. If undocumented individuals are receiving tax credits via a loophole in the law, that is NOT the fault of the IRS - they are simply following the law. The IRS did fail to follow the law by denying tax exempt status for several liberal and conservative groups.

Scout, you can't read very well. I said REASONABLE, not easy, path to citizenship. BTW to consider all "undocumented immigrants" as "undesirables" is a slap in the face to those who bust their backs doing the work no one else wants. Why do you think businesses and wealthy individuals could care less if immigration reform is passed - they lose their cheap labor and domestic help.

Only 2 Republicans are trying to fix the EITC payments to undocumented individuals!? I guess the rest are too busy shutting down the govt., eh Scout.

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Scout101

Oct-23-13 3:13 PM

As far as the child credit checks. The last action on this was 2 Republicans trying to pass a bill to fix it and Harry Reid stopped the bill. I believe he is a Democrat. Oops, guess they don't want to fix it. Can't cancel all those payments to future voters.

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Scout101

Oct-23-13 3:08 PM

ranger you can bet the IRS will enforce the Obama care fine with vigor. They should rename it "the Obama selective enforcement branch"

Hartman, you will call Republicans, Tea Party members or conservatives anything you think you can get past the sensors. Why won't you call these "undocumented workers" what they really are, Illegal immigrants. They snuck into our country and purposely avoided the checks and procedures that are supposed to keep us safe from undesirable persons. To give them an easy path to citizenship after breaking the law is a slap in the face to anyone who ever immigrated to the US legally.

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rangeral

Oct-23-13 12:28 PM

Silly me - I thought the IRS was supposed t enforce the law, hartman. I guess they are too busy harassing the Tea party to actually do the jobs they are paid to do.

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hartman75

Oct-23-13 11:26 AM

Actually rangeral, Congressional Republicans were responsible for determining eligibility, not Democrats or the IRS.

Scout, I don't agree with the Democrats efforts to maintain the status quo regarding the EITC policy. That is why an immigration policy is badly needed including a reasonable path to citizenship so we don't have "undocumented" individuals receiving tax credits.

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rangeral

Oct-23-13 9:54 AM

The Dems have controlled one or both houses of Congress for over 7 years - now we learn that more than a billion dollars was paid out to those not eligible for the EIC. That's Obama's IRS at work yet again. The report did not blame the Tea Party - just lack of control at the IRS.

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Scout101

Oct-22-13 9:32 PM

Fact check Hartman, this is 2013 not 2008, the numbers have gotten bigger. And if you want to turn this into a Republican vs Democrat issue 2 Republicans introduced a bill to correct the problem and Harry Reid cut off discussion on it so it could not be presented for a vote. With Democrats in the Senate & Whitehouse they have also failed to require a valid ssn for the money. Party doesn't matter, they all see this as a new crop of voters ripe for harvest. Very few want to do anything about it.

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hartman75

Oct-22-13 4:40 PM

"$4.2 billion in checks to illegal immigrants"

"Initially the credit wasn’t refundable in most cases (only for families who had three or more children and who also met certain income tests). So the issue of illegal workers claiming credits did not arise at first. But the 2001 Bush tax cuts made more parents eligible for refundable credits, and increased the amount in steps to $1,000 per child.

So by 2005, the recent IG report said, 796,000 persons without valid Social Security numbers claimed refundable child credits totaling $924 million, and in 2008, these claims had risen to 1,526,276 persons claiming $2.1 billion in refunds." -factcheck

Here's the real kicker: In 1998 a Republican led congress failed to require that a valid Social Security number be filed for those claiming the EITC allowing illegal immigrants to "earn" the credit.

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Scout101

Oct-22-13 12:39 PM

Here's a real kicker. The IRS sent out $4.2 billion in checks to illegal immigrants for Additional Child Tax Credit.

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Scout101

Oct-22-13 12:23 PM

Hartman why don't you call the "undocumented workers" what they really are, "illegal immigrants". The Republicans have supported some plans with a path to citizenship. Hartman if someone broke into your house at 2:00am and spent the night, the next morning would you agree to share your home with them ? That's how you need to look at this. This country is our home and illegals are breaking into it every night and instead of kicking them out you want to put their name on the title to our home. There is a hospital in Dallas, TX where approximately 80% of the babies born are born to illegal immigrants at taxpayers expense. There is not a warm and fuzzy solution to the illegal immigrant problem. It's time to take the hard line and ship them out. What do you think Mexico does when a US citizen illegally crosses the border into Mexico ? Prison time.

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Scout101

Oct-22-13 12:06 PM

First of all Hartman it wasn't just the Tea Party that shutdown the government, all parties played a roll in it. Secondly, if you managed a business and saw that a new plan was going to fail and cost billions of dollars that you did not have wouldn't you try to cancel that plan if it meant closing the business for a few days ? Thirdly, money spent in Medicare is money well spent. The money that was taken away from Medicare and used to fund Obama care is money flushed away. Medicare needs some changes but it does not need to be totally replaced with Obama care.

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rangeral

Oct-21-13 7:18 PM

hartman - again - we can discuss anything you want once you have answered my questions regarding the current health care law.

You questioning my use of Medicare while not disclosing what your healthcare plan is and how much you pay for it is common for you "liberals".

I for one am surprised that you have not brought up Travon and what impact that has on healthcare.

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NoBleedingHeartHere

Oct-21-13 7:06 PM

Merritt, your assessment of hartmann is a given. I just find the placement of that term in the liberal lexicon incredibly paradoxical, misdirected in the current mix of political topics.

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Merritt

Oct-21-13 5:51 PM

I wouldn't even make that argument NBHH. I would just say it makes Hartman look like a hypocritical childish fool to use that term. Hartman obviously doesn't live the anti-bullying stance he/she promotes.

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NoBleedingHeartHere

Oct-21-13 5:43 PM

Hartmann, stop with the Tea Bagger term already! Liberals are so stuck on name calling, that they don't even realize that, in the use of the term, they are discriminating against the very people they are coddling with the same sex marriage lunacy. Liberals don't even realize that they are trying to integrate "Tea Bagging" into marriaage laws! Hartmann that makes liberals the "Tea Baggers". Are you so above the fray thay you don't you get that?

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hartman75

Oct-21-13 4:44 PM

rangeral, how much "extra" was spent by Republicans fixing the problems with Medicare Part D? Don't you remember how little was known about the benefit and how unpopular it was - even less popular than the ACA (21% to 35%). Actually, it may be hard to determine the additional cost since Republicans FAILED TO FUND the benefit which means ALL the COSTS ADDED TO OUR NATIONAL DEBT.

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hartman75

Oct-21-13 4:40 PM

Scout, if the “health care disaster” is REALLY a disaster then why did Tea Baggers shut down our government to delay its implementation and why did Republicans vote over 40 times to repeal the ACA even when they had NO CHANCE in succeeding? If rangeral actually paid as much into Medicare as he is using, then Republicans would NOT be claiming Medicare will be bankrupt soon, would they? Scout, are you claiming funding of Medicare represents “taxpayer dollars flushed away”? The Republicans oppose ANY Immigration Bill which includes a pathway to citizenship. So what is their plan to deal with the millions of undocumented individuals in the U.S.? What is their plan to deal with the young children of undocumented immigrants that were born in the U.S.? So many dilemma’s, so few solutions from Republicans.

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Merritt

Oct-21-13 4:22 PM

Instead of starting with a farm bill, I would suggest starting with a real budget. Make these politicians work within a framework. We can call it budget reform.

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rangeral

Oct-21-13 3:57 PM

What is your healthcare, hartman, and how much do you pay?

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