Consider this. If you had to move your family would you simply pick a street address in an unknown area or would you first visit the area and check out the neighborhood. Maybe see what the prospective neighbors look like. Sounds like profiling doesn't it ? Hartman this issue is being kept alive only because of race. If the people and groups mentioned by NBHH really cared about all people why aren't they protesting about the elder Midwest woman who was beaten, raped and killed by an illegal resident ? They could be protesting the 11 million illegals in this country but that wouldn't promote their racist agenda.
3 Agrees | 7 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
bystander, I don't disagree that Zimmerman may have been profiling. What I do disagree with is Hartman's statement about Martin being killed only because of that. Martin was killed because he stopped running and got into a physical altercation with Zimmerman. The police records have Zimmerman saying Martin was running. Why did he stop ? I have no doubt a slender 17 year old young man could have outrun an older, overweight Zimmerman. Instead of running home or calling the police I believe Martin stopped with the intent of doing harm to Zimmerman.
I don't know everyone's history on hear, I lived in the Marshall area for over 20 years and lived in the Sanford area for over 10 years. While profiling may seem like a bad way to do business in Marshall, you better profile in Sanford or you will very quickly find yourself in deep trouble.
2 Agrees | 7 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
Ahh, the wonderful diversionary habits of hartmann.
"Anybody see the stupidity of these people, and the people who agree with the race bait strategy?"
You are right NBHH. They are all stupid. Everone knows Zimmerman was justifed for shooting Trayvon because he was wearing a hoodie. It's only logical that anyone who wears a hoodie is a criminal and deserves to be shot. BTW, NBHH would that hold true even if a Vulcan is wearing a hoodie?
7 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
hartmann, you wouldn't comprehend logic even if you were a Vulcan.
3 Agrees | 6 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
bystander, 1 more time. The Sandford Police saw all elements 1st hand, and originally decided not to press charges. That's the right call. But then, the "poor me" race baiters raised their ugly head, just so a jury of peers would ultimately arrive at the same conclusion as the police, based on the very same data. Again, the right call. But, not good good enough for the NAACP, Sharpton, Rangel, Jackson, Holder, Obama and the hearty contingent of race bait sympathizers. Now Holder wants to spend millions in taxpayer dollars to arrive at the same conclusion again, even though he's heard the opinions of the FBI re: racist allegations about Zimmermann. Anybody see the stupidity of these people, and the people who agree with the race bait strategy?
"The fact remains however, if Zimmerman doesn't "profile" Trayvon, Trayvon is still alive." -hartman
"...the "fact" you state is based completely on conjecture on your part and not on proof." -Scout
"Don't fault Zimmermann for profiling." - NBHH
Scout, if you claim my “fact” is based on conjecture then clearly you have difficulty perceiving reality. The “fact” I stated is as provable as the facts determining the earth is round. But hey, don’t take my word for it.
Sure NBHH, lets fault the person who sold Trayvon the hoodie, not Zimmerman. So if Trayvon would have been wearing a suit, then Zimmerman would be guilty of murder? What if Trayvon had a suit on under his hoodie? What if Zimmerman was also wearing a hoodie? Yes sir NBHH, your observations are VERY astute. But wait, hoodies don’t kill people, only people kill people.
6 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
Didn't the 911 calls that Zimmerman make indicate that Zimmerman had, in fact, "profiled" Martin? Didn't he indicate that he thought he was suspicious--presumably based solely on looks (the infamous hoodie!)? I think Hartman is making a good call in stating that particular "fact".
7 Agrees | 2 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
As usual Hartman the "fact" you state is based completely on conjecture on your part and not on proof. You are chasing your tail not because we disagree but because you rely on the same old rhetoric and ignore the evidence.
5 Agrees | 14 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
hartmann, suppose you are lost in a big city. You who never profiles. You have two choices who to ask for directions. Are you going to ask a person of unknown race (because you can't see his face) in a hoodie, or are you going to ask the black guy in a business suit?
Don't fault Zimmermann for profiling. If he had such a choice on that night to suspect one or the other, it would NOT have been the suit and you know it!
5 Agrees | 17 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
Glad you’re amused Scout. I’ve only tried to provide a foundation based on Trayvon’s point of view that counters unsubstantiated claims Trayvon was the aggressor. There is no way of knowing how the altercation between Zimmerman and Trayvon started, we only have Zimmermans version of events.
I don’t understand the vitriol from you and others directed against anyone who dares to allege that justice was not served in the Zimmerman trial. I fail to see how that constitutes "spewing" or "chasing my tail", simply because we disagree. It wouldn’t be the first time murderers have walked free because of flimsy evidence and a jury’s jaundiced view of a witness and probably not the last. We have based our opinions under the same collection of testimony and evidence with each of us arriving at different conclusions. The fact remains however, if Zimmerman doesn't "profile" Trayvon, Trayvon is still alive. That fact can not be disputed. Zimmermans courtroom days are
15 Agrees | 6 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
Hartman you continue to chase your tail with noting but argumentative spewing. I guess you think you have more facts than the police, the jury and the FBI who investigated Zimmerman for race issues. It has almost gotten entertaining to watch you.
4 Agrees | 17 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
Btw, hartmann when I said, "all of you", who I was referring to was ONLY the pc crowd, those who demonize the justice system, and who have a hissy fit because due process doesn't go there way. A mighty dismal crowd you are associated with hartmann. The jury was a jury of peers, essentially representing you. The Sanford Police indirectly protecting you. So what do you whiners do? You belttle and demonize them. You don't appreciate due process in the framework of the Constitution? There is always Cuba, Venezuela, take your pick. Either way pc whiners, stop insulting the USA!
6 Agrees | 16 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
"Two decision making bodies coming to the same conclusion is not sufficient for the pc *****."
Since when do two wrongs make a right NBHH. I can't help the fact Florida's legal system is blind to justice. BTW, it's a free country NBHH, you can put on a hoodie or stop posting comments any time you want.
16 Agrees | 5 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
"He (Trayvon)didn't like the "cracker"...and confronted Zimmerman with the intent of settling the issue himself."
Scout, what was the issue Trayvon was trying to settle with Zimmerman, a person he had never met?
Referring to Trayvon, Zimmerman made the comment to the police dispatcher, “F-----g (expletive) punks. These a------s (expletive). They always get away.”
So as Zimmerman confronted Trayvon what was the issue Zimmerman was trying to settle with Trayvon?
17 Agrees | 4 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
Hartman you continue to run in circles with this and go nowhere. I did not say there was a witness to Zimmerman and Martin coming together. I said there was a witness to Martin being on top of Zimmerman. Why did Martin hit Zimmerman ? He didn't like the "cracker", his words not mine, following him and confronted Zimmerman with the intent of settling the issue himself. If Martin had only been concerned with his safety he would have called the police not his friend in Miami, or he would have run home. When you defend yourself you break contact with the threat and get out of the area you do NOT climb on top of the other person. He was not shot because he was wearing a hooding or because he was walking around. He was shot because he was on top of another person in a threating manner.
3 Agrees | 17 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
Isn't it ironic. PC is censuring my post. So let's use "PC crowd". That should cover the deletion.
5 Agrees | 16 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
The unaddressed topics, not just of mine, but other posters as well, are substantial. I contend that therein, is alot of common logic that you have overlooked, and that is undeniable to the analytical mind. Predominant in that is, 1st, the fact that the jury sat through ALL of the testimony, and made the decision based on that testimony. And 2nd,The Sanford Police originally did not feel criminal charges were warranted, but then had to bow to the politically correct demons in our society. Two decision making bodies coming to the same conclusion is not sufficient for the pc *****. And now Holder wants to spend millions in tax payer dollars likely to come to the same conclusion. I see no common sense in this assault on the justice system. Cut to the chase - All of you, give it a rest!
NBHH, no W-I-T-N-E-S-S or E-X-P-E-R-T saw Zimmerman and Trayvon as they came together. I'm not disputing that Zimmerman shot Trayvon, or that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman. I'm disputing Zimmermans justification for shooting Trayvon. Common sense and logic have nothing to do with shooting a person because they are wearing a hoodie. Again NBHH, what is the question for which you so desperately seek the answer?
harmann, Scout gave you the "possible reasons" in his last post, with W-I-T-N-E-S-S and E-X-P-E-R-T. hartmann, the jury heard the case. You did not. My money is definitely on the jury. You know, common sense?
Whats the question that has not been answered NBHH?
15 Agrees | 4 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
Scout, there are ONLY two logical reasons why Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman: 1) Trayvon was defending himself from Zimmermans aggression. 2) Trayvon feared Zimmerman wanted to harm him and was trying to protect himself. Zimmerman displayed aggressive behavior by pursuing Trayvon in his vehicle AND on foot when Trayvon ran. There is NO evidence that Trayvon was aimlessly walking around looking for some random person to beat up.
Scout, given the evidence, not including Zimmermans story, what do you believe is a reasonable explanation for Trayvon hitting Zimmerman?
15 Agrees | 5 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
hartmann, I've thrown numerous points into the discourse, as have others, yet you dwell on the 1 or 2 points, which seem to annoy you the most. Therefore Pirate's "bob and weave, no answer" assertion fits. This kinda reminds me of 3rd grade, where somebody makes a claim, and not being able to answer the question, one of the pouty kids calls it "stupid". On that basis hartmann, I believe you are sincere in your response that you are "unable to respond" because, like the pouty kid, you can't come up with a sound answer.
The evidence that exists proving Martin was not defending himself is the witness placing Martin on top of Zimmerman and the gunshot evidence from the coroners office placing them in the same position. If you have someone on the ground and you are on top of them beating them that is not defending yourself. Read the facts Hartman. All the personal attacks on other posters do not change the facts and they do not make you right.
4 Agrees | 16 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
"Bob and weave hartman. As usual no answer."
Seriously Pirate, can't you read? Or are you claiming ignorance because you don't like the answer.
17 Agrees | 5 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
508 W. Main St. , Marshall, MN 56258 | 507-537-1551