ELCA affiliation prompts discussion, not necessarily change, for area churches
A process for cutting ties with the ELCA will be moving ahead at Singsaas Lutheran Church in rural Hendricks, but not at Christ Lutheran in Cottonwood. For other local churches, it’s been just an object of discussion so far.By Deb Gau
Fact Box
It's something that will probably continue to be discussed.
- Joel Dahl, Christ Lutheran president
For one area church, discussion of dropping an affiliation with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America has resulted in a determination to leave. In others, it's stayed a discussion, church officials said this week.
Both Singsaas Lutheran Church in rural Hendricks and Christ Lutheran Church in Cottonwood held votes over the weekend to determine whether to leave the ELCA.
The vote passed at Singsaas, but narrowly failed at Christ Lutheran.
Ending ELCA affiliation is a multi-step process. If a congregation passes a motion to leave the ELCA by a two-thirds majority, they must hold a second vote at least 90 days later. If the second vote passes by a two-thirds majority, it becomes official.
Singsaas church president Trygve Trooien said his congregation's vote passed by a two-thirds majority, although he declined to give exact results. The ELCA may require a second vote, he said, but Singsaas members were still determined to drop the affiliation.
"Our goal is to leave by the end of the calendar year," Trooien said. At this time, he said, the church hasn't made any decisions about finding a new affiliation.
Christ Lutheran president Joel Dahl said 118 church members attended a congregational meeting Oct. 18. They voted 74-44 in favor of continuing the process of changing affiliations, Dahl said, but missed a two-thirds majority by four or five votes.
"It's something that will probably continue to be discussed," Joel Dahl said, but there will not be a second vote. An informational meeting on affiliation issues was planned for early November, he said.
Joel Dahl said he thought the high voter turnout, and even the number of people voting to continue the affiliation change, were a positive sign. A 'yes' vote was essentially a vote to keep exploring the issue in Christ Lutheran's case, he said.
"It's encouraging, as it shows a very high percentage of interest," Joel Dahl said.
Rev. Linda Pedersen, an ELCA synod minister for southwestern Minnesota, said the number of congregations who have held or are planning to hold votes on affiliation have stayed about the same - four out of more than 260 churches, including Singsaas and Christ Lutheran. One church had decided to hold an informational meeting instead of a vote, she said, while a congregation from the Hutchinson area had come forward with plans for an affiliation vote.
Trooien and Joel Dahl said a decision by the ELCA's national assembly to allow gay people in committed relationships in the ministry was one part of church members' concerns at recent meetings. But it wasn't the only one, Joel Dahl said.
"(The meeting) dealt with many issues," Joel Dahl said.
At Singsaas, Trooien said, "It was just the general direction the ELCA seems to be taking on various social issues . . . In some ways they had just gotten too liberal for us."
Pedersen said she had heard rumors about churches in Marshall planning to hold affiliation votes, but they turned out to be false. Officials at Marshall ELCA churches said they had no plans to vote, although the subject of affiliation is being talked about.
"There's really nothing major at St. Stephen's," said Carol Moseng, president of St. Stephen Lutheran Church in Marshall. "We had a forum where people were able to express their thoughts, but we're not having a vote."
Rev. Bob Dahl, the pastor of First Lutheran Church in Marshall, said the congregation has had one informational meeting and is planning another, but not a vote.
"About three weeks ago, we had a Q and A session," Bob Dahl said, and about 60 members of the congregation attended. "It's an opportunity for people to be heard," he said, and to learn more about the options available to the church.
The national assembly's statement on sexuality is likely a concern for some members of the congregation, Bob Dahl said, but not as an issue whether to be welcoming of gay people.
"It's a change in terms of an ordained office," Bob Dahl said, and what would be considered acceptable for a minister.
Wayne Skaar, president of Hope Lutheran Church in Minneota, said their congregation hasn't held any formal meetings or votes on the subject either.
"We're waiting for more information," Skaar said. He knew there were some church members who were interested in learning more about the process of breaking affiliation, but recently Hope Lutheran has been focusing on priorities like filling a vacancy for pastor.
Bob Dahl said his hope is that area residents stay open and respectful in discussing the assembly's decisions and affiliation issues.
"I hope people have compassion during a difficult time, that we don't end up taking shots at each other," he said.
"I think it will take a while to digest," Moseng said of the ELCA assembly's decisions. "The main thing is to keep talking."
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WhiteKnight68
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10-26-09 6:33 PM
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Grumpy~ I have no problem either of any sinner that comes to church seeking forgiveness and REPENTANCE of their ways.Jesus said "your sins are forgiven, go and SIN NO MORE" I don't believe that Jesus "hated' the coin changers and others that he drove out of the temple because they were an affront to God....With God all thinga are possible but not all things are permissable.Do not construe this to mean that I would hate any sinner to come to church just to see if they are going to be rejected so they can accuse others of hypocrisy, narrow mindedness, or hate, but rather let them come seeking repentance and forgiveness and for the stength to change their behavior.There are many forms of discriminaton not all of them are done in the spirit of hate.Of course God loves us all and wants each of us to do His will... you only have to read Scripture to know what that is.It's not difficult to understand why people oppose Practicing Homosexuals to become Ministers of the Gospel.
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ruralroute
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10-26-09 6:11 PM
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grumpy, you pretty much insult those who believe the Bible literally. Forgive those of us who believe the Bible teaches homosexuality is a sin. It's not any worse than another, it's just sin, and we are all sinners. That doesn't mean we hate gays at all -- it just means we don't endorse their lifestyle as morally acceptable. Grumpy, I don't know where in the Bible it says to hate homosexuals - no where. you are inferring something that is your spin on what the book says. And why is it that if church preaches against homosexuality, is it "hateful." Yes, there are some extreme churches who preach hate, but I also know many who oppose the behavior who don't promote hate.
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Grumpyoldman
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10-26-09 12:50 PM
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having attended the community meeting about Mr. Miller - and feeling comfortable in the facts that were shared - I would have no issue in inviting Mr. Miller to join my family in Church. I have no hate for Mr. Miller. I would not invite Mr. Miller into my granddaughter's bedroom - however - any more than I would invite an alcoholic over for a drink or purchase ****** for a recovering addict. I have a hard time understanding where you are taking this and to what end knight. It all still comes back to love the sinner hate the sin. If we are talking the direction homosexuality in church - I do not agree that segregation and hate is a prudent direction for any congregation. I never will.
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WhiteKnight68
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10-25-09 10:51 PM
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Grumpy and others~ except for our differences, I believe for the most part that we are alike with, perhaps, one other difference. I believe that we ALL have God inside us and follow the teachings of Christ. The ones that don't have God inside them are the ones that attempt to change what God has ordained.
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WhiteKnight68
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10-25-09 9:22 PM
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Grumpy~ If that is what you truly believe about the Bible,perhaps you should be more explicit to begin with as you were on your last post.Similarly, I should've been more explicit regarding my opening comment; it WASN'T YOU I was refering to as accusing others of somethng, they were guilty of also. In previous posts I attempted to get you to answer specific questions which you dodged upon reply. Now,Ill ask again in a different way. How would you feel if Clarence Miller were sitting next to your son or daughter in Church and it was customary to exchange greetings which is expressed with physical contact such as a hug? If you refused to allow that between your son or daughter would that mean you "hate" him? I believe something different than you about the Bible.From experience and study. I find the Bible to be more CONSISTENT and more APPLICABLE (REAL) than the philosphies of man, no matter who.
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Grumpyoldman
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10-25-09 6:48 PM
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And in not taking a literal view of the bible - it does not mean that I reject it out right - I just choose to believe that many of the parables and stories were created simple to teach a lesson - that is all. Doesn't mean I reject the bible - just means that I choose to take from the lessons being taught - not the literal interpretation of the actual words themselves - words that have been translated to mean many different things to many different people over the years. Shakespeare stated that even the devil can quote scripture to serve his purpose...I believe that!
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Grumpyoldman
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10-25-09 6:44 PM
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White Knight - that was the name a good friend of mine named his MG - I don't hate you White Knight - I don't know you. Nor do I accuse you of anything. I merely stated that "I" choose to believe that God/Jesus/Faith is about love of all of Gods creatures - not just the one's we "approve" of...Thank you zasspa for the correction...Whether it is Jesus or Ghandi - both spread messages of Love - forgiveness. I think that there is much to be learned from the younger generations.
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zasspa
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10-25-09 6:38 PM
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umm. "hate the sin, love the sinner" comes from Gandhi. It's not in the Bible. Among many other things, Gandhi believed in non-violent civil disobedience in the struggle for Indian civil rights. As a lesbian and a Christian, I have another quote from a song I learned growing up in church "and they'll know we are Christians by our love." Yes, it's a song, not a bible verse, but for me, it gets a pretty profound point across. We're all on this planet together. I don't want anyone to leave my church, but there sure seem to be those who want to leave the church because I want to be there.
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WhiteKnight68
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10-25-09 3:50 PM
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It's really remarkable how those who accuse other's of something are guilty of it themselves (one of the reasons why I find the Bible to be something more than a book written in the bronze age)and Grumpy just because YOU don't believe that homosexuality isn't a sin is not sufficient to conclude that those who do are necessarily haters.Jesus taught more than "hate the sin, love the sinner" He died for all who would REPENT of their sins;His death and teachings were not a mere gesture to allow ALL that He died for to continue in their sins.Besides GRUMPY If you reject the Bible.... why do you quote it?Where do you think "hate the sin, love the sinner" comes from???
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NotYou
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10-25-09 12:40 PM
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Singsaas is a tiny country church outside of a small town. The congregation is aging faster than it is being replaced and the elderly congregation has voted in their old-fashinged, narrow-minded way. Too bad, this will be the death of the church.
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Grumpyoldman
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10-25-09 10:22 AM
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I didn't say anything about anything in specific. I was taught in church to hate the sin love the sinner. Jesus taught that very message. Seems to me he died for ALL our sins. I don't happen to view homosexuality as a sin. I will never be swayed otherwise by any quotation from the bible. I view it simply as a book written in the bronze age. I refuse to give to it a literal interpretation. To each his own. I personally will not choose a faith that preaches hate against any man.
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WhiteKnight68
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10-24-09 9:43 PM
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So,Grumpy you don't hate child *****graphers, child pedohiles, and serial rapists... because they can't help themselves.. are they born that way and it's discrimination to separate them from society? Do you think that Jesus forgave such characters without the stern admonishment " And sin no more..."?
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WhiteKnight68
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10-24-09 9:33 PM
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You mean LG56289, if there will be 5,10, or 15 years from now.... even God imposes limits. Not everyone is exempt from judgment including those who call themselves Christians,or those who believe they are "open minded" and those who claim to be without bias, or bigotry.Will you allow anyone in your Church? Anyone at all, no exceptions? Even a former Catholic priest guilty of pedophilia who has not been treated for his behavior and continues to practice it?
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WhiteKnight68
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10-24-09 3:46 PM
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Maybe, because they were "born" that way????
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littleguy56289
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10-24-09 1:05 AM
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This stuff will balance out 5, 10, 15 years from now - the 20 to 30-somethings will have a stronger voice and all this bigotry will be looked at like "Huh? Really? People thought that way?"
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Grumpyoldman
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10-23-09 5:38 PM
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Funny how many out there go to church to learn hate
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NotYou
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10-23-09 4:30 PM
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And that is why I left that small town and that church....they are narrow-minded. It's too bad that Singsaas made the choice they did.
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