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Firearms stolen from Borch's

October 30, 2013

MARSHALL — Marshall Police responding to an alarm call at Borch’s Sporting Goods on East College Drive at 2:41 a.....

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(31)

hartman75

Nov-04-13 1:43 PM

It seems, 56258, you and the others have missed the point. I contend that Borch's could and should have done more to prevent a theft of this type from occurring. They have the burden of protecting the general public from allowing the guns they sell to fall into the hands of criminals. I have no doubt Borch's follows the letter of the law but prevention of a crime is much more effective than calling for greater penalties. That's why they are required to perform background checks.

Your reference to penalties that helped reduce incidents of drunk driving is accurate, 56258. But a large part of that success is due to the actions that help prevent intoxicated individuals from driving.

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sumyounguy

Nov-02-13 12:07 AM

Excellent post Krunch! Factual AND entertaining.

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56two58

Nov-01-13 7:13 PM

Hartman, I would suggest that stiffened drunk driving penalties in MN have had a direct impact on reducing the amount of drunk drivers. You can see a peak near the time that penalties and enforcement became a priority. It's a small sample size, but I can say confidentially, if the penalty is severe enough, the crime will subside. However, we routinely chose as a society to not have severe penalties (generally speaking). We've gone from public hangings to probation and from spankings to time-outs. If using a gun in a felony - tack on 5 mandatory years. Why not?

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56two58

Nov-01-13 7:06 PM

hartman - the definition of a tax is an imposed levy on a taxpayer by a govt. Threfore, a gov't mandate that requires a vault by a business like Borch's is by definition a tax. No spin, just facts. Not very ridiculous at all.

We know this for sure - there was a crime that involved theft of guns from a legal provider who had them locked. Solve the crime, go after the criminals and punish the heck out of them.

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KaptainKrunch

Nov-01-13 6:45 PM

I'm fine Hartman, I'm conservative were always right. Seriously Hartman your ranting about background checks, Borch's does them, I know I've purchased firearms there. How would a background check prevent this theft? I don't think these thieves were concerned with background checks. I'll go one step further, knowing Worthington it's a better than average chance that the thieves were also here illegally. The same fine folk your president wants to give amnesty to. And if your so very concerned about criminals having guns then you'll join me in calling for the immediate arrest of Eric Holder for the illegal gun running to Mexico that did end up in criminal hands. Here's a stat you'll love Hartman on the first day of Odumba care a total of 6 people nationwide were able to sign up. That gives it a success rate of .00013%, great job liberals. But everyone gets a participation ribbon.

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hartman75

Nov-01-13 6:01 PM

You are correct Monkeyman, selling the stolen guns on the street is the same as selling stolen guns at a gun show. No FFL needed, no record of the transactions, no background check. Actually its more convenient for criminals to sell and buy guns at a gun show - there is no oversight.

Just the mere mention of a background check causes the righties to get their whitey tighties all in a bunch. Is that lucid enough for you Kaptain? If I mention your name at the Mental Health Center will I get your group rate?

BTW I'm curious, why would either you, Monkey, or Kaptain object to background checks or other measures that would help prevent criminals from getting guns? Anything you guys want to share...?

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KaptainKrunch

Nov-01-13 4:31 PM

Hartman you need some mental help. Only a liberal could spin a burglary into a anti gun rant and tie it into Odumba Care. Would it make you feel better if they had smashed into a jewelry store. Nothing political here Hartman, but I do encourage you to go see Southwest Mental Health Center it's right there on east college drive.

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monkeyman5

Nov-01-13 4:14 PM

hartman - What's your hangup with gun shows with these guns? Is it because you think they're going to be sold to criminals there? NEWS FLASH the guns were stolen, they're already in the hands of criminals! Why would these people take them to a gun show to be sold where there's even a remote chance of getting caught instead of just finding somebody on the street to buy them?

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hartman75

Nov-01-13 3:39 PM

For instance, how about we make it harder for criminals to obtain guns. Background checks on all gun sales would help as would recording ALL gun sales.

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hartman75

Nov-01-13 3:36 PM

Sure 56258, we could enact stiffer penalties for crimes involving guns. Can you give me an example of a stiffer penalty that resulted in preventing a specific crime? We increased the penalties for those who possess drugs. How's that been working? Our jails are certainly more crowded but it has not reduced drug use.

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hartman75

Nov-01-13 3:28 PM

A vault is a tax? Could you present a more ridiculous argument, 56258? Please, don’t try.

I’m not ignorant enough to believe a locked entry door & display case is adequate protection against gun theft, 56258. Money is far less lethal yet banks use a vault. It’s unlikely we would be having this discussion if Borch’s used a vault. On the subject of higher costs, I suspect a vault would cost less than the increases they’ll see in their insurance rates, plus fewer guns would be in the hands of criminals. BTW 56258, why wouldn’t these guns be sold at a gun show – there would be no records to trace them back to the thieves. Based on the manner in which this theft occurred I’m going to go out on a limb – this doesn’t exactly appear to be the act of a couple drug addled thugs in search of easy money. It looks more like a well planned heist from a low risk target. The manner in which we look after guns should be different than how we safeguard a Rolex wristwatch.

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56two58

Nov-01-13 2:07 PM

hartman75 - why tax the business who is following the law, instead of attacking the criminals who conducted theft & smash and grab. If they are found & convicted, how about 5 extra years in prision?

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56two58

Nov-01-13 2:06 PM

For instance, how about 5 year minimum addition to any felony sentence resulting from a crime committed with a firearm.

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hartman75

Nov-01-13 2:04 PM

"The ATF reports that between 50% and 75% of the vendors at gun shows possess a Federal Firearms License." How's your math Pirate - what percent DO NOT possess a FFL?

"Under the terms of the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 (a United States federal law)... individuals "not engaged in the business" of dealing firearms, or who only make "occasional" sales within their state of residence, are under no requirement to conduct background checks on purchasers or maintain records of sale..."

According to the DOJ, ATF Special Agents identified gun shows as a source used by gang members and other criminals to obtain guns. Stop deflecting Pirate and address the problem.

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56two58

Nov-01-13 2:01 PM

Bob - they were secure. Behind locked doors. Might I remind you that it took a coorinated effort, auto-theft and a hit (and run) effort to steal the firearms. Yet, you want to require Borch's to incur more costs and protections? Stealing a car, crashing a building and stealing firearms - you think these folks are going to show up at a gun show? A more likely outcome is that these guns will be used for future crimes and/or exchanged for drugs. Penalties from criminals need to be increased to deter these crimes, not new laws and more costs for legitimate, law-abiding businesses.

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Pirate

Nov-01-13 1:10 PM

Bob and weave hartman. That's FEDERAL Firearms License.

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hartman75

Nov-01-13 12:38 PM

Given Borch’s success, I’m inclined to believe they are very good at tracking their inventory. However, according to MN State law, they have NO obligation to provide serial numbers of the guns stolen to law enforcement. Those same guns can be legally sold at gun shows by individuals lacking an FFL and the individual purchasing the gun is NOT obligated to submit to a background check. No record of the transaction is required which makes it extremely easy for potential criminals and those already banned from owning guns to buy a gun. Borch’s insurance will cover the cost of the stolen merchandise so it’s unlikely they would want the guns returned even IF found. Why aren’t gun stores required to store their guns in a secured Safe when closed for business? A glass display case is not a “protected” means of storing guns. Stricter laws would make it harder for criminals to buy guns. It’s about safety not politics. Address the problem instead of deflecting the issue.

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56two58

Nov-01-13 9:41 AM

Amazing how this can turn into a political debate. No law, current or proposed would likely have affected this. Criminals stole a car, smashed it through a building and stole targeted firearms in a well-coordinated, targeted manner. These firearms were legally owned, accounted for, and displayed (protected) for sale.

I hope that we catch these folks - as it is obvious they are motivated by something that shows no regard for others. They would be highly likely to hurt others for their own selfish interest. Please catch them and prosecute them to the fullest extent possible!

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sumyounguy

Oct-31-13 11:02 PM

pHartman, Pirate was talking about an established business with a license to sell firearms and you jumped right to gun shows. Conflicted? If you're that worried about guns winding up in the hands of criminals, you need to call AG Holder and let him know. Ever heard of Fast and Furious? Oh wait, Holder is your guy, guess that'll never happen. And as far as preventing law abiding citizens from receiving affordable health care, demonrats did that all by themselves, without reading it, so that people could find out what's in it.

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Pirate

Oct-31-13 10:35 PM

Bob and weave hartman. Borch's ain't no gun show. They have to account for all firearms thoroughly in and out. No mater how that happens.

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hartman75

Oct-31-13 9:41 PM

"..."Private" sales...are not regulated by the state of Minnesota. ATF spokespeople refer to such sales as the "Gun Show Loophole." The "loophole" is designed to allow people to buy, sell or trade guns with their neighbors, friends or family without additional permitting."

"At gun shows, however, it is possible for someone to set up a table near licensed gun dealers and present themselves as private sellers, not subject to permitting."

Now, what were you saying about a lack of knowledge, Pirate? Obviously, you are uninformed about both liberals and gun laws.

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Pirate

Oct-31-13 7:19 PM

Typical liberal lack of knowledge. Check into FFL requirements for tracking of firearms if you are a licensed.

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SMSUguy

Oct-31-13 5:33 PM

Pretty sure Borch's keeps accurate inventory records of everything in the store. Hard to know what's gone until they figure out what's still there.

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hartman75

Oct-31-13 5:32 PM

Qute right SEL. Since there is no requirement for Borch's to report the stolen guns to law enforcement and no requirement for background checks of individuals purchasing guns at gun shows, these weapons will easily wind up in the hands of criminals. According to Republicans, we must protect even a criminals right to have access to guns - its more important to prevent law abiding citizens from receiving affordable healthcare. Gosh, those Republicans are sure conflicted!

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SELyonCo

Oct-31-13 3:44 PM

Apparently Borsch's doesn't keep accurate inventory records for their firearms (and the law doesn't require them to). I guess they didn't want to risk violating a thief's 2nd amendment rights.

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